Join Kosta and his guest: Craig Pyle, Owner and Farmer of Hidden Holly Farm, a 125-acre farm located in Monterey Tennessee focused on raising animals naturally, humanely and sustainably.
In this episode:
Food costs are up almost 30% in the past 10 years. How can we bridge the gap to provide access to quality, all-natural food while acknowledging the never ending struggle to keep up with inflated grocery prices? Where does our meat come from that's in the grocery store? What does sustainable food production look like?
Find out more about Craig Pyle and Hidden Holly Farms:
https://hiddenhollyfarm.com/
Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a product of Morgan Franklin Media and recorded in Cookeville, TN.
This episode of Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is made possible by our partners at Loxx Salon and Spa.
Find out more about Loxx Salon and Spa:
https://loxxsalon.net/
Join Kosta and his guest: Craig Pyle, Owner and Farmer of Hidden Holly Farm, a 125-acre farm located in Monterey Tennessee focused on raising animals naturally, humanely and sustainably.
In this episode:
Food costs are up almost 30% in the past 10 years. How can we bridge the gap to provide access to quality, all-natural food while acknowledging the never ending struggle to keep up with inflated grocery prices? Where does our meat come from that's in the grocery store? What does sustainable food production look like?
Find out more about Craig Pyle and Hidden Holly Farms:
https://hiddenhollyfarm.com/
Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a product of Morgan Franklin Media and recorded in Cookeville, TN.
This episode of Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is made possible by our partners at Loxx Salon and Spa.
Find out more about Loxx Salon and Spa:
https://loxxsalon.net/
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Craig Pyle:You know we become a society that everything serves us. And we've looked at tasks like raising a tomato is meaningless tasks kind of like farming, right? It's a menial job. Let's not do that. But they do have meaning and they have purpose and they have value.
Morgan Franklin:Welcome to Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev. A podcast on parenting, business, and living life intentionally. We're here every week to bring you thoughtful conversation, making your own path to success, challenging the status quo and finding all the ways we're better together. Here's your host Kosta Yepifantsev.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Hey y'all, it's Costa. Today I'm here with my guest, Craig Pyle, owner and Farmer of Hidden Holly Farm, a 125 acre farm located in Monterey, Tennessee focused on raising animals naturally, humanely, and sustainably. Craig, you grew up on a farm and you've owned a farm with your family for the past 30 years, there was a time when almost every family in Tennessee had a farm. But now you're very much in the minority. How is this transition changed the way we access food and the quality of food that we're eating?
Craig Pyle:That's a great question. And that the transition is not that long. It's just been the past 100 150 years that that transition has occurred, really started with ultimately the Industrial Revolution, World War One World War Two, where all farm jobs became the norm, people started going off the farms. And then the necessity was for farmers then to raise more food. So that's kind of how that started. And then once they start doing that, and you have the Industrial Revolution, mechanization of agriculture came into play, which is really when farming turned into an industry versus farming. And then with the mechanization you have where they want to be extremely efficient. So having uniquely genetic crops to grow, okay, everything being the same, so they can be more efficient at it. So you went from the early 1900s, where you had diversified farms, where they had a few animals on the farm and different crops and the race, you know, food for themselves and tin families around them to arms that raise just corn for 1000s of families. So as that started, efficiency kept being the problem. So then they would start using I think it was in the 40s when I had her Simone, you became less expensive. And so that became the fertilizer. Okay, so synthetic fertilizers really became into play then. And so that happens. And when you start having monocultures you're heading synthetic chemicals, the soil the or organic life and soil goes away. Or there's a difference between dirt and soil. All that affects quality of food and stuff. And then at the same time, you know, animals, the same thing is happening to them that's happening to crops they're being raised to, you know, instead of having a cow on the farm and a couple of goats and a couple of pigs, you have pig farms with 1000s of pigs. Again, that transition kept happening where the confinement and consolidation of these things, that's when Capo unit so confined, animal feeding operations came into play. And those were necessities, if you will, because as they kept trying to control the animals feed the animals disease was a big problem. Sure, you know, soy farmers in an effort to get out of all that stuff started using barns. And that helped them control the manure, urine feed and more efficiently because instead of one guy feeding 10 There's one guy feeding 1000s. And with that course, in the 50s, I think is when antibiotics came in around so they had a lot of problem with that and then you start add antibiotics to to keep them healthy in those difficult environments. You know, a confined feeding operation is very challenging to keep animals healthy, right? And so that's why antibiotics were so prolifically used in agriculture. And so you roll all that up, and then we're kind of where we are today where you know, high antibiotic use, which has been an issue and everybody recognizes that now so let's use less of though So that's affected the quality of our meat, okay, you have soils that are not really soil anymore. So the quality and nutritional value of the food, whether it be the animal that eats the food off of it, or the person that he's the food off of it is way down. I mean, the health has been truly affected by all the concentration and the industrialization of the food, whether it be a raised product from the soil or an animal,
Kosta Yepifantsev:how does the soil not having the same level of nutrients of fact, the nutrients that the crops have?
Craig Pyle:Excellent question. I guess the main thing is, we as humans cannot duplicate what God can do in the soil, the soil is a living ecosystem within itself. And you know, the example I would use would be a strawberry. If you have a strawberry that's raised in a, in a flower bed with purely synthetic fertilizers, you can make it really, really big, really, really bright red, and really, really full of water, which is yield, and color and appearance. Right, right. And that sounds good. But it doesn't taste very good. Because we cannot mimic what what the soil does to put in actual nutrients and taste and in the product. And I believe there'll be a time when farmers are paid. True farmers are paid by the nutritional value, that product actually contains fastening, which cannot be achieved with a synthetic fertilizer.
Kosta Yepifantsev:So we're talking about crops that are genetically modified, we're talking about, I mean, huge operations where you have pigs, and you have cattle by the 1000s, right in these pens, chickens. And I watched Food Inc. I don't know if you've ever seen that movie, but it's a great documentary on Netflix, that talks a little bit about our, essentially our our food processes, but it's an old documentary, it was like back in 2009, if I'm not mistaken. So when you go all the way back? Why did we decide to make this transition from family farms and everybody having a hand in our food supply chain, to kind of blowing it all up? And deciding that, you know, we can rely on massive corporations. And if I'm not mistaken, international supply chains to be able to meet our needs.
Craig Pyle:That's multiple parts to that question. The first part of which we kind of just talked about with the industrial revolution, people left the farm, so somebody else has got to grow it. So it was by necessity, was by necessity, the farmers that started feeding animals and concentrated animal feeding operations weren't bad. But that's what they had to do with what they had to work with. But we know better today
Kosta Yepifantsev:was it to keep prices down, were they trying to make food more accessible and more affordable for people. And they were trying to fix the bottlenecks when it came to people having access to food. And so they thought if we can do this to scale, and we can bring the prices down and more people will have access to I don't want to say nutritional food. But I would just want to say just food in general was that the intent, a huge
Craig Pyle:part of it is absolutely scale. In my example, I can raise a pig. And it cost me $5,000 To raise this pig. Because of all the stuff I have around it, then I could raise 100 pigs and divide the infrastructure across it or so scale is important at all levels. But at some point, it gets too big. I see. And you can't take care of the needs of the animals. To me, that's where the line is. And
Kosta Yepifantsev:that's where we're going to talk about. So here are the facts. According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, prices for food at home are 27.39% higher in 2024 versus 2014. Over the past 10 years, food prices have gone up almost 30% And we have no control over what's your message to listeners about taking control of their own food production.
Craig Pyle:Clarification, when you say take over their own food production, do you mean raising their own food or just being involved in it?
Kosta Yepifantsev:I would say both.
Craig Pyle:Okay, perfect. So I think it takes both because I'm a farmer, but I can't do it all. I'm not a good vegetable farmer. We raised we have a few vegetables, but that's not our thing. So if I had a neighbor that raised vegetables, that would be who I would go to for my vegetable, right? So I think it takes a village. So my advice to people would be ultimately, the word I want to use is participate. As Americans as a culture, we do not participate in food. What we do is consume it, right? We pick and choose what we want and we're consumers but we don't participate in the food system. So all the things that make up that, whether it be how healthy it is nutritional value it is or not nutritional or how much of it. We've handed over the responsibility of that to bureaucracies. Sure. And And at no point, are we asking the right questions, if you will. So we need to participate in it. Understand food labels, we'd like to be experts at it, but understand what they mean and what they don't tell you. And what they do tell you, because what they don't say is just as important as what they say, this is a huge issue for our country, I believe it. And my advice would be for everybody to participate. I think that most people could raise a few chickens. So it doesn't take much to raise chickens, right? They don't have to have a lot of land to have five layer hands and have eggs for a family. Yeah. And they are they're excellent. They're the best composter on the farm. People who didn't used to buy grain for chickens, they had as many chickens as they had food scraps, you know. So having a few chickens is a great way to start cheap, not hard. Anybody can raise a few tomatoes, get compost are thrown compost pile, so that they can have a nutritious better soil to raise tomatoes.
Kosta Yepifantsev:I mean, you know, it sounds like 100% foreign to so many people, when we talk about raising chickens, we've tried to do some vegetable planting, unsuccessful, but we are going to try again this year, every year we get into spring and we're like, this is the year we're gonna get some pots, we're gonna plant some seeds. We're gonna buy some some already, you know, grown bushes. And they never quite come to fruition. But this year, I think we're gonna have some success. Do you ever get anxiety about the fact that your message may be falling on deaf ears?
Craig Pyle:No, I don't have anxiety about it. The journey I'm on. I love raising food. And I love teaching people about food, what I know, and continuing my journey. But it's an incredibly humbling experience to go through this. Born in the 60s, raised on Froot Loops, if you will, you know, stuff out of a box to we myself, all of us have been complicit in this process. And still are. And all of us whether we're getting better, if you will, are still complicit at some point. I wasn't born and I know everything about this and imperfect. So I don't get anxiety about it. I get concerned that how do we the community that I'm involved with, get the message out so that it can actually benefit people the most? How do we get that done? And this podcast is I think one of the answers for that.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Speaking specifically about your specialty, all natural farm raised meat. What's the difference between the meat we're buying at a Kroger or Publix for example, and the meat we buy from you? Where does the meat from big box stores normally come from?
Craig Pyle:Well comes from everywhere. It could be from Argentina, our food system at this point is global. It is absolutely global. A fact here, America is known to be the grain capital of the world, yet 80% of the organic grain and put organic in quotation marks comes from overseas. Fascinating. That is fascinating. It is all it should be also concerning. How is that possible? That's another whole rabbit hole we get into. So knowing that it's global, that your meat could come from anywhere and actually be labeled as a USA product. I think consumers need to know because if we were to take a pig that is harvested in China, cut up in China packaged sent to the United States packaged opened, repackage differently. It could have a USA label on and really right. So country of origin CUI labeling, which they're still working on is a real thing. And that's why labeling is so important.
Kosta Yepifantsev:So you're saying that it could be USDA, but it could be from a different country? Yes, sir. And it won't tell you what country it's from because there is no country of origin label. That's right. Wow, that's fascinating. Because here's the thing, when I think of meat, specifically, when I go to the grocery store, I'm assuming that this is all being raised and developed in the United States. You know, I'm assuming that the chickens are in a chicken factory somewhere, you know, in Tennessee, North Carolina, Georgia, what what have you and that cattle is from the Midwest? And you're saying that most of the time or if you could maybe give give a percentage is this the majority that it's that it's coming from out of the United States? Or is it a small percentage of meat that we're purchasing? How big is this problem? I guess is the question.
Craig Pyle:That fluctuates I want to say for poultry and pork is not as prevalent as it is in beef. Okay. And right now, the beef in our country. There are less cows in the United States now than there were in the 70s Wow, we're obviously still eating beef. So it's got to come from somewhere.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Well, and so I watched a 60 minutes on this, actually. So embryos are sent to Mexico, and they are raised, the cows are raised in Mexico. And once they get to a certain age that they're then transported back to the United States to finish, like the feed process and then taking the slaughter. Are you saying that eventually, if we keep going down this road, we won't even have that second half of the process? We'll just have them all in Mexico to the point towards slaughtered and then done, taken to the United States opened up repackaged. Here's USDA beef.
Craig Pyle:I think it's possible. Okay. I don't know that it all be that way. But I do think it's possible is gonna be more that way. Are
Kosta Yepifantsev:other countries in terms of regulation? Are they less regulated in the United States? And what type of impact does that have?
Craig Pyle:That's a really good question. And I would focus on the EU right now, you've probably seen a lot of the farmers protesting over there in the EU, the EU is a lot more regulatory, constrictive than we are much more so I think half a Parliament's budget is subsidizing poor farmers. So it's a massive piece of their budget. And that's kind of really why they're protesting. Because if you're struggling for money, and 50% of your budget is farm subsidies, where do you go to cut first? Farming? Right? That's a big issue over there. So they're much more regulated than we are? And why that concerns me is a lot of a lot of things. We follow Europe. You know, they're sometimes like five years ahead of us. If we look to Europe as what is going to happen to our food system, imagine what our prices would be like here. You know, if we continue down the regulatory path that they are, it'll be much worse.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Wow. And I mean, it can't get much worse in terms of costs. It's already up 30%, you know?
Craig Pyle:Well, I don't know. I don't know if you're right there. Yeah,
Kosta Yepifantsev:when I went to the grocery store in Europe, it is significantly more expensive than the United States. Significantly more. That's right, it is laudable, and what a lot of people don't understand and then we're gonna move on, because I know we're going to take a lot of time if I go down this rabbit hole, but what a lot of people don't understand is, there is a huge percentage of sales that are attributed to the SNAP program, the Food Stamp Program. And when I say sales, I mean by grocery stores, big grocery stores like Kroger or Publix, you know, all these what have you. So, if the prices of food go up, the food stamps have to go up too, which means the tax burden on the regular American goes up as well. And so a lot of people don't correlate that but as food prices go up, it's not just that we spend more money on food, it's that we have to fund the snap programs so that people can afford to eat as well that have these food stamps. And it's not just poor people with people on a fixed income that are elderly. I mean, it has long term outsized effects that people just aren't aware of.
Craig Pyle:It just a quick comment about that, you know, when I think of the food system we have, it is regulated heavily. And you know, from my chair, the heavy regulation that we have is bad. There's too much of it, it restricts food choice, it restricts the small farmer, there's lots of reasons that I think it's bad or not what I would prefer. The other part about that is when you when you look at the food industry, and how much it's regulated and the way food prices are, and you compare that to say, the drug industry, the medical industry, most heavily regulated industry we have and look at prices, right? So there's an absolute correlation between regulation and price
Kosta Yepifantsev:and health outcomes. Same thing with the nutritional outcomes of food 100%.
Craig Pyle:And I wish that we as a culture could look at those two things and connect those dots and go, Aha, because I think it's massive.
Kosta Yepifantsev:What does sustainable food production look like? And how does it impact our community and the environment overall?
Craig Pyle:Wow, sustainable agriculture or regenerative agriculture that they're very similar terms are buzzwords too, so we have to be careful with that. Sustainable has several facets to it. And everything from the economics of the farmer, to the environment are all considered and I've written some of them down so I wouldn't make sure I missed some of these. So that's a really important question. The first one that I would talk about is pollution. Sustainable Agriculture is reducing pollution. It's stopping the run off. The example would be the big blooms algae blooms in the Great Lakes and the Gulf because of runoff but especially with commercial fertilizers it could be with with manure, too from feedlots, but all of that is a big problem. And I have to say, you know, we have lots of regulation around that. But is it getting better? I would argue no. And when we say people say that farming is a big environmental crisis, they're right. But it's not farming is the method of farming. And it's sustainable agriculture is a solution to a lot of those problems. Another point that is saving water, you know, you think when you think of agriculture and water, you think of California can't get enough water can't get enough water can't get enough water. Okay, what about measuring how much water the land can hold? Not how much you can get. But when you have dirt, and you put water in, it turns to a rock. When you have soil it absorbs it and use it so you can measure how much water ground your field can absorb in an hour. And that is an actual metric that people like me look at when I have rain is my is the water running off the pasture staying in the pasture. So saving water is a big deal. And that's the way to do it. And it's very different paradigm than what we think right. Another one would be the natural maintaining of soil fertility by recycling the nutrients on the farm. I don't use chemical fertilizers. I don't go to coop and buy a triple 19 I have manure, I don't sell manure because it's like gold to me. Right. That's what I need on the farm. Exactly. And so you know, using composting woodchips, then whatever food scraps I have, or old hay that I can get from somebody else that don't want it and using all that to continually build my soil makes my ground produce more food for my animals. So just keeping that circle going, keep it on the farm is critical.
Kosta Yepifantsev:You deserve to feel your best on the inside and outside. That's one of the things I love the most about today's partner Loxx Salon and Spa. They helped me look my best on the outside so I can feel my best on the inside. And Aveda concept salon locks is proud to serve guests with the highest quality products made with organic ingredients free from sulfates, questionable chemicals, and artificial ingredients. Plus, Jessica says my hair has never smelled better. Recognized locally and nationally. Loxx is a decorated salon today top 200 recipient and repeat best hair salon and nail spa honoree by the Herald citizen Find out more at loxxsalon.net, Loxx your beauty destination. It seems that all of these things seem like a no brainer. I guess like the million dollar question. Why are they choosing not to do this? Like what is the drawback by making sure the soil is healthy, making sure that water is conserved. I mean, it just seems like it would increase the efficiency.
Craig Pyle:Well, you can save money farming by using natural resources. The problem comes in when you're trying to not mono crop but have diversified crops, okay? Because if you want if you have a mechanized operation where you're picking corn, and you have tomatoes planted in there, that's a very big one. Yeah, to farm like we do is work, okay, and it's not as efficient as we've made industrial farming to be. So that is the big rub. The commercial farmers have no problem with saving money on fertilizer, if they can make that work. And some of them are making a change, you'll see people that are changing from from conventional till to no till, and trying to apply cover crops more often so that fields aren't laying barren throughout the year. Because if you drop by field, there's nothing on the wintertime you see the wind blowing, that's dirt leaving the field. The number one problem I believe when the EPA was founded was erosion. Well, the number one problem today is erosion.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Can I ask you though, with regards to GMOs, and also just meat that has too many antibiotics in it that just is not the type of meat that you that you raise? What are the the significant implications of eating genetically modified foods of eating meat that has too many antibiotics in it? What are some of the consequences of that?
Craig Pyle:I think that the consequences of those are our health. Okay. And I believe that that is probably the most misunderstood problem that we have the experiments not over. Right, you know, just beginning. Exactly. You know, all of the autoimmune diseases that we have is documented that those things can be corrected with diet food as medicine. So all of the advancements that we think we've done and there's been good things come out of those can't knock that but the food should be medicine. It should be healthy for us and all these GMOs and synthetic vaccines and things Things like that are, in my opinion, and based on the research I've done, all going to affect our health negatively over the long term. And the reason people don't, you know, get on it quickly is because it's not acute. If you go to a restaurant or go to my farm and eat, something gets sick, it's a cute, right? You had food poisoning, right? But when you have trans fats, and you're eating trans fats, it took a long time for that to happen. Right? By the way, trans fats were approved by the FDA. And it was only the public outcry that made them change. Yeah,
Kosta Yepifantsev:and what I've heard, and maybe you can add some validity to this as GMOs affect the composition of our DNA. So, I mean, it's like, you're taking a food that really doesn't exist in nature, and consuming it in your body's processing it. And there's components of it that we're not quite familiar with. So
Craig Pyle:I think there's a lot to learn that we don't know. And I wish, I wish we would start turning the ship and not learn it.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Well, are we though, like, are we turning? I mean, obviously, you're you're very well versed in what we should be doing. I am not, and I tried to buy organic, but it's one of those one step forward, two steps back, you know, I'm thinking that I'm doing the right thing by eating organic. And then I find out that well, organic is subjective. You know, organic can mean a lot of different things. And so then I'm like, Okay, well, we'll just go to the farmers market, and we'll just buy food there. I have four kids. And it's hard to make sure that you're there between eight and 12 on a Saturday. I mean, I know it's an excuse. But if that's the only time that you can buy fresh produce is eight to 12 on a Saturday, you know, I mean, we should make it more accessible, I guess. That's right. As we discussed earlier, food costs are up almost 30%. In the past 10 years, prices at the grocery store are a concern for most Americans. How can we bridge the gap to provide access to quality all natural food while acknowledging the never ending struggle to keep up with inflated grocery prices?
Craig Pyle:That's a huge question. And I don't think that food prices are going to go down anytime in the near future. I don't know if they ever will. What I do know is first you have just inflation for whatever the consumer goods are that it takes to make food. Diesel fuel cost me more today than it cost me five years ago. Yeah. So those things affect all of us, right? I guess an example that that bothers me is if I take a pig to the processor, and I processed you know, typical cuts, you know, bacon, which is we have a smoked and cured naturally will have hams that are smoked and cured. Naturally, we cut all the fresh cuts, however somebody wants to have sausage made so nothing fancy, but just good stuff. That's a $530 price tag to have been processed by a USDA processor. Now it could cost a little less if you want to do it as a custom and you're not selling it right. But for me to produce it for you cost that just to process the pig. And that wasn't the cost of the animal, the feed for the animal 330 pound pig, I can easily have$1,100 in this pig before I get it to you. Now, Smithfield can process a pig for $17 prior to COVID?
Kosta Yepifantsev:No way.
Craig Pyle:That's what a scale does for you. Wow. So it's, it's really difficult for people to buy product and understand why this porkchop costs $3 A pound and Craig's costs $15. Why is that? Well, then I can show him the spreadsheet, but they still understand that the cost of their health, the cost of the environmental concerns are not included in that, you know, government subsidies take care of a lot of those things where the government doesn't help me. All those things are factored in and matter but yet all the consumer sees when they go to Kroger's is that price tag. Okay, so
Kosta Yepifantsev:how does reducing regulation contribute to lower prices and more accessible food?
Craig Pyle:First and basic example I would give you would be the USDA processing. You come visit me on the farm for a farm tour. And I decide to cook dinner for us. Okay, I can take my pork that I theoretically harvested that day. On my farm, I can cut us the most fresh pork chops you've ever had cook it for you. And you can eat it and it's okay to do. However, off that same pig that you just ate a pork chop from if I put it in a package and sell it to you for$1 I've committed a crime, fasten it. And so let's understand it in order to not commit the crime. I have to have that filet porkchop inspected for you. Now, if you come to the farm and I give you heroin, everybody knows that's unsafe. It's illegal to give it to you and it's illegal to sell it But I can give you pork, but I can't sell you pork. So to me, it's not as much about food safety as it is about commerce. Yeah, it's about the dollar changing hands, brawl, milk, milk cows, all my young kid life, right? That's what we did, we had a milk cow. And we never had pasteurized we strained it through a cloth and frigerator and we drank it. Right? But it's illegal to sell you milk, it's illegal to sell you milk from a cow that's not pasteurized. Think about that. So how would I reduce cost? It's probably a 30 to 40% increase in costs to have a animal processed under USDA inspection versus not?
Kosta Yepifantsev:Do you think that they? Meaning when I say they, I mean the federal government, they just aren't confident that there's enough good actors in the farming community? Or do you think that they're just not enough farmers in general? And so they're like, Well, you know, we're going to create a process a standardized process. And as can get kind of complicated, but y'all bear with me a standardized process for big commercial farms. And that's going to do 90% of the legwork. And then family farms will do the other 10%. They may not like the regulation, but they're in the minority in terms of affecting the overall food supply. And you can agree with me or not whether that's the case. But if that is the case, how do you incentivize this kind of a technical question, but incentivize Americans to change their behavior so that it changes the regulation?
Craig Pyle:That's a really good question. And I can't really say that I've thought about that. In those terms. I do agree with you, that I think the primary intent of the regulations are good. I think they want to do the right thing. But it's bureaucracy, and it adds cost,
Kosta Yepifantsev:right? And it's a big business,
Craig Pyle:it absolutely is a big business. And it does, it definitely doesn't support the small business. And I guess, small farmers are just not a big piece of the puzzle. So we're not going to influence them. So how do we get Americans to start flipping the switch? To me, it has to be the health and environmental argument, because our raw cracy is not improving our health. Bureaucracy is not improving our environment. But we we are a solution to those problems done this
Kosta Yepifantsev:way. I'm gonna dig down just a little bit deeper. When we're talking about our health, I would say that relative to like, my parents, and people that grew up in the 50s 60s, and 70s, we are much more health conscious than they were, if we are becoming more health conscious. But we're not really seeing that translate to better quality food. Are we being lied to? Or are we not being told the entire truth about what we're eating? And what effect that has on our bodies? Not to put you on the spot, but I'm trying to understand because it seems like we are all moving in the right direction. And it's kind of like, okay, you played sports, okay. So like football, basketball, and actually wrestling. Great. All right. So it's like your coach is telling you all the things that you need to do to be successful. And you are applying those things to win the match, right? So you get to the match your opponent's in front of you, you use all the things that you were taught to win. And you realize, at some point in the match, that you were set up to fail, it kind of feels like that, for a regular average consumer, that's health conscious that's trying to live a healthy life that's trying to improve the longevity of their life. Every time I think I'm doing the right thing when it comes to food and eating and diet. I always get let down. So I mean, why
Craig Pyle:thinking of examples, one that's been in the media, and we've all probably very aware of the antibiotics now, right? So the public has pushed on big business to take antibiotics out of food, and rightfully so. And that's what it took to get people to move off dead center and start taking antibiotics that were just applied. And we did it to back in when I was a kid we gave animals antibiotics just because you put them to the head gate, right? But now, they don't want that and for good reason. So what started that and is about health conditions in these Capo units. I mean, to keep animals healthy, that's what they had to do. So how are they managing to keep animals healthy? But yet the capo units haven't went away? To me. That's a big question. Right? What is not said is they don't say medicine free. They say antibiotic free. I would say that the new antibiotic or that vaccines. It is not antibiotics anymore. The vaccine industry is not being invested in the vaccine industry is being invested in politics. So
Kosta Yepifantsev:you're saying the vaccines that are given to the animals is what's replaced essentially the antibiotics?
Craig Pyle:That would be one of the things? I would think it's happening. Yes, very much. So,
Kosta Yepifantsev:you see this spinach, like the amount of E. coli that comes out of these spinach farms. You read you look, you literally watch the news. And you're thinking to yourself, like, what can I eat? But say, the healthy foods you never see a problem with like Captain Crunch? You know, having a recall.
Craig Pyle:Another example is pork specifically. So now a lot of the commercial pork, and I'm not sure exactly every state, but they're giving them the m&r a vaccine. The synthetic vaccine, the base, if you will, they're not making vaccines with the live egg yolk anymore. Right. It's just like part of the COVID
Kosta Yepifantsev:vaccinators, right, Pfizer and moderna vaccine. They were mRNA. Exactly.
Craig Pyle:So they're giving that to pigs. All right. So people on my side of the fence, if you will, don't want that to happen. So they've been challenging that. But instead of saying don't put it in the meat, what they've asked them to do is label it. But they won't label it. So I don't think it's hard to answer the question as to what's happening when they will not they being bureaucracy or big business, or whatever it is, they will not label it for what's at it.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Tennessee has agriculture on the state seal. It's obviously like a huge part of our identity as a state. When you talk to leaders at the UN, I'm not I'm not going to put anybody on the spot. But when you talk to leaders at the state legislature, it seems kind of like a no brainer that they would say Tennessee is off limits, that we need to be moving towards the path that you're describing, embracing this collaboration between Tennesseans making sure that small farms are supported. Do you feel like it's a difficult needle to thread in a state like Tennessee? Because if it doesn't happen here, it's not going to happen anywhere?
Craig Pyle:Yeah, I hear what you're saying. And I don't know that I know the answer.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Do you feel like you're supported as the small farm operation? A local farmer?
Craig Pyle:That's a complicated question, or an answer, I don't want to support. Okay. In our country, we do have quite a few subsidies and grants that are available for farmers, you know, I could apply for a grant and get new barns built, I could, and they would help me pay for that I could apply for grants for fencing or water infrastructure and qualify for those and get that assistance, and it would help my farm. To me, it's a philosophical problem. Why is my business okay to get those subsidies and the hairdresser down the street? Not? So, to me, that's a problem. I don't approve of governments picking winners and losers. I believe that it should be in the market, and that you should be purchasing my products because you think it's better than hers, or vice versa? Yeah. Not because the government says so. So I don't want and I don't think we should have all the government intervention that we have today. I'm not sure answered your question. But that's how I feel about it. You did
Kosta Yepifantsev:it to be to be totally honest. More people need to have that type of perspective. Because what you just said was, just let me run my business. And let me help people the way that I think is best. And let's bring them on board. Your there is no standard of practice when it comes to consuming food. At least not there doesn't have to be. America is built on small businesses. And when you take away their component of being creative, and sustainable, and potentially successful, because you're picking winners and losers. You end up with a monopoly.
Craig Pyle:Yes, sir. Great.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Let's talk about hidden Hawley farms and how you're personally taking back the responsibility of humane and sustainable farming practices to give the upper Cumberland the best meat options available. What is this philosophy look like from the raising to the processing? That's the
Craig Pyle:heart of what we do it again, I grew up on a farm and it was a commercial operation small commercial operation. But we didn't have Capo units right? We had cows on pasture and stuff. I thought that's the way you did everything was the way we did it as a youngster so I learned that better of it just in the past several years is is is I've researched and I want to raise pigs well how do you best do that? And I started reading and learning and the more I read learned, the more this is the way I should be doing it. So ultimately what that led me to was regenerative agriculture. And then to make that even a little more, I guess, specific, it's raising animals and Mother Nature's image. How did God intend for these animals to be? Because he gave us the earth? He gave us the animals? How did he intend for us to take care of them? And so that's what we try to do. Ideally, the diet, what diet are these animals designed to eat? That's what I want to get, what type of environment, you know, pastures woodlands are these animals supposed to be in? And how do I manage them, protect them. And at the same time, give them the most of that environment that I can. So that that's, that's what we do. So chickens, we have free rein some chickens, and sometimes we do still free range some but what we do is we have these mobile coops with these big fenced in electric fenced areas, so they can go out and they do whatever they want to do. But we have to have some protection for the coyotes just eat them, right. That's how I've struck a balance, right? They're outside every day they're walking, they're eatin bugs are eating grass, being what chickens do. So they're not cooped up in a spot. But yet they have protection at night from coyotes and a house, the pigs, I do not have a pig bar, we have a barn on the farm. But we do not raise our pigs and barns we do not even have baby pigs and barns. The first thing I was told, Well, Craig, you gotta get a barn, you gotta get heat lamps because your babies won't live. And well, that's true if you're raising a commercial pig. And you don't understand what their environment needs look like, and you help them with it. So we buy heritage breed pigs that have origin capability that had nesting capabilities, it blew my mind when I saw my first Berkshire pig, make a nest, wow, and have babies in the womb cool. We've had babies on the ground last winter, and below zero temperatures this winter, in that cold snap, I didn't lose anything. You give them enough hay to have around them and protection from a little bit of wind and they can survive a lot.
Kosta Yepifantsev:How do you feel about like the impossible meat and all those vegan mean options?
Craig Pyle:How do I feel about that? I don't know if I can say that out loud right now. I think it's horrible. People can I think I think people should have the choice to eat what they want. And that's fine if somebody wants to eat impossible meat. And that's their choice, what I think is they should understand and be given the information so that they can make the decision about it. You take something much, much simpler than meat, I mean, the impossible meat that's raised in a vat with E. coli proteins, just just think about this, we're having to raise this meat in a vat that was a protein. And there's other things that grow in there. And how do we kill that? Well, we have to kill it. And then we have to make sure that the protein in there survive. So it has to be antibiotic resistant? Doesn't that sound conflicting with what we're trying to do? That really, really bothers me. But I think people need to understand what's in it. And I don't think anybody understands yet what the implications of that are on our hill on a big scale. So I don't like it at all.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Can I tease out one thing that I think is important for the audience to hear. And at some point, if I'm not making sense, or if I'm on the on the wrong track, just stop me. When we go to the store, and we're buying processed foods, the best way to think about that processed food is it started as a raw ingredient. And then it got processed because it needed to kill off some bad things. And then it got processed again, because it needed to kill off some more bad things. And then it needed to have some things added to it. Enriched. Right? And so by the time that we get to the finished product that we buy in the store that's been processed and processed and processed. We are consuming correct me if I'm wrong, a chemical cocktail. Yes, sir. Oh, absolutely agree. Okay, so just remember that when when you go to the store and believe me, I'm I am just as much to blame when I eat cookies. I'm not you know, getting cookie dough from scratch, and I'm getting total house package and I'm sticking it in the bakery. Sorry, in the oven to bake it and eating chocolate chip cookies. The same thing you know, with Laffy Taffy is I'm not you know, making my own right, we all have our weaknesses. Exactly, exactly. But that's a good way in my opinion, I think to look at how processed foods are affected. If
Craig Pyle:I could say just something here, the journey that we're on any of us as individuals were at different spots in that journey. And nobody I don't believe should try to you know, eat the elephant all at once, right? That's just impossible. You're gonna fail. You know, take small steps, get better at something, go to the next thing and just keep getting better and better and a lot People do the 8020 rule, you know, sometimes the ice cream, maybe I shouldn't, but I'm blessed with some pretty good health. So I kind of my body can seem to afford some of that right here. Maybe some people can't. They're all different, but just take little steps and keep working towards that goal. What
Kosta Yepifantsev:is step one? Like if you could pick one spot, whether it's you know, buying organic milk, or just buying organic? Or if it's, I know, I know, you're probably going to say you should stop eating processed foods. But let's just say you can't afford to stop eating processed foods, what would be a good diet shift that people can do to be more healthy? Well,
Craig Pyle:buying organic foods is better. That's a whole nother rabbit hole. But yes, so what a person could afford would be better. And they're all going to be more expensive than that in the process foods, unfortunately. So if money is the hurdle to eating healthier, then what I suggest is grow something, literally start with raising a vegetable, you can spend $1 and a half on a tomato plant and get lots of tomatoes. That's right. I mean, it's a lot cheaper than going to the store to us with some effort. And you know, we become a society that everything serves us. And we've looked at tasks like raising a tomato is meaningless tasks, kind of like farming, right? It's the menial job, let's not do that. But they do have meaning and they have purpose, and they have value to us. So I believe we should be doing it.
Kosta Yepifantsev:And you can get a pot, even if you live in an apartment, you can still get a pot and you can plant a tomato plant and you can have tomatoes, you know, you don't have to have a yard or acreage to be able to do that. That's right. Yep. Before we go, I want to give a call to action to any restaurant owners who have listened to this episode and are considering where they should buy their meat from, how can businesses work with you? And also, where can we buy your products?
Craig Pyle:Great. We'll start with where to buy our products, of course, the farms in Monterey. We have a website that has a store on the on the website. So you can purchase products right from there. What's the website, www hidden Holly farm.com everything we have is there you can order pay for it. Then we have meetup spot. Sometimes I set a meetup spot at my church. On some Saturdays, there might be a farmers market in the future that I might join where I would, you know, meet people there for orders and whatnot. We also have farm pickup, I have certain days when you order you could just come to the farm and pick it up right there. It's in a bag ready to go. Of course, farm tours are good. I've given farm tours and showing people what's going on. I
Kosta Yepifantsev:mean, I'm gonna come over for dinner. Absolutely.
Craig Pyle:So those are all ways to buy our product. very new at this. So that's that's what I have going on. I would like to have more meetup spots at different spots within our region, if you will, say your subdivision or where you live area might have 20 people that might like our product, well that I could meet at your house and delivered all those people once a month, something like that. And what all are you selling the primary thing is pork, pretty much anything and everything pork all the way from whole life pig you want to buy that we've had people come to the farm is pretty cool when a family comes to the farm to get a pig or a roasting dinner. And they'll bring their children like a grandson and how we help them harvest a pig. And they'll participate in that at some level, put it in their truck and they they go off to go roast a pig. I mean, that's the neat experience. So you can buy a whole pig, you can buy a whole pig as processed in the box ready to go. Or you can buy a single pork chop or sausage, whatever suits you. So
Kosta Yepifantsev:it's hidden Holly farm, we raised pork, beef as well. We raised
Craig Pyle:some beef and we raised some chicken, beef I'm out of right now. And I'm really trying to keep that very small. Okay, we're focusing on pork. Already, we do raise quite a bit of chicken. Have
Kosta Yepifantsev:you considered going to some of the restaurant tours here in town so that they partner with you? Because I know Snake River is a very well known operation that provides beef to a lot of restaurants, higher end restaurants, etc. And I'll be honest with you, I mean, it's hard to find a good steak and cokeville or a good pork chop for that matter. Is that something that's in your future? Or are you going to continue just going direct to consumer?
Craig Pyle:No, it's definitely in our future. In fact, I'm gonna withhold the name of the restaurant. But we are actually in a deal with a restaurant. We made our first delivery to that restaurant yesterday.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Nice. Oh, yeah, it was quite exciting for me. And we'll see it on the menu.
Craig Pyle:You will see my name or the hidden high farm on the menu. Yes, I'm very excited about it. I'm okay with restaurants further out, if you will, but I really want to get this one going and make sure we've got a really good thing going to help me with the exposure if you will. It's social proof. And I think once I get that beyond me and my operation grows to be able to support this plus the direct to consumer business I had then I could look for another restaurant One
Kosta Yepifantsev:more question. And then we're gonna wrap up. You've been in farming for 30 years. But it sounds like you're just now going from a farming to running a small business, I guess you could say. So before you took on this new venture, what did you do? I mean, what did you just raise crop and sell it at market? Or? I mean, what what exactly did you do for the last 3040 years? Well,
Craig Pyle:as far as the farm was concerned, it didn't do a lot. So my daughters had three daughters, my oldest is 25, we've had the farm for 30 years. So when I first bought the farm, I was absolutely raising a few animals trying to sell them exactly kind of what I'm doing now, but at a much smaller scale. So I was trying that and then get married. And I have these three lovely daughters. And life becomes about raising them school dance lessons, clarinet lessons, and so forth. So really, the focus was raising the girls. Yeah, you know, my day job career, and the farm was there. It was more of a hobby at the time, you know, we have a pony or, you know, we have a few goats every once in a while, but there was never I didn't have the time to invest like I would like to. Now there are girls are grown, they're often school. And as that was happening, COVID hit? Well, as I said, we've always had something on the farm. So when COVID hit, we had meat in the freezer. So when the shelves were bare, and the food system was just derailing, if you will, it wasn't a big deal for us. Because we had food in the freezer, we didn't have everything. So the variety was a lot less, but we were not going to go hungry. As I'm thinking. And this is not good. I mean, I like raise them own food. But should I be a part of the solution? And how do I do that? So that's kind of how that direction went. And then the research got more and more, because I'm just gonna raise the meat, right. But that's which is what I had been doing. But now I want to raise it and do a better job and have better product and have an outcome that helped the environment help people help the animal, the whole 360 degree spirit, if you will. So that's kind of how it happened.
Kosta Yepifantsev:If everything goes according to plan, where do you see this in 30 years? Are you guys all working on the farm? Are you in every single restaurant across Tennessee, maybe even the southeast?
Craig Pyle:No. I mean, that'd be quite the Cinderella story. My my ambition, if you will, or intent is to move to a couple restaurants would be great. But to support 100 families 150 families with the proteins and stuff that I raise, and to help those families find other sources for the things I don't do. I want to be that resource for people to where do I get this? Well, this is the best farmer I know that raises great turkeys I go to this guy. Where do I go for bees? Well, I've got a few bees, but the guy that's gonna help you with bees is over here. You know, that's what I want to be to people because it's not just about selling product, it's about us living better. And I want to be a part of that whole piece, if
Kosta Yepifantsev:you will. So you'll get to 100 to 150 families quick, I have no doubt about that. More importantly, what you're describing being the conduit, you're creating a network of consumers communicating with people that are producing the food farmers. I think that that's so important. And I think that, aside from obviously having great success in your business and supporting those families, that could be your largest contribution. Because no one's been able to do that. And I'm all about Cinderella stories. So if if it comes to crag being the one that finally breaks through and creates that homogeny between consumers and farmers. We'll all be better off as a country and as a society. We always like to end the show on a high note. Who is someone that makes you better when you're together? Well,
Craig Pyle:That's not hard to answer. But I can't say someone I've got to say multiple folks, my wife and my girls, they're my world that's why I do what I do. You try to be the best person you can. The husband and my wife and that are to my girls and to me that's what I'm here for and everything else is kind of extra.
Kosta Yepifantsev:Thank you to our partners at Loxx Salon and Spa for presenting this episode. Loxx is an Aveda Concept Salon providing the highest quality in hair, skin and nail services, from extensions, coloring, facials, and microblading, Loxx is your beauty destination. To find out more visit their website at loxxsalon.net
Morgan Franklin:Thank you for joining us on this episode of Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev. If you've enjoyed listening and you want to hear more, make sure you subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your podcasts. Leave us a review or better yet, share this episode with a friend. Today's episode was written and produced by Morgan Franklin post production mixing and editing by Mike Franklin. Want to know more about Kosta visit us at kostayepifantsev.com. We're better together. We'd like to remind our listeners that the views and opinions expressed during this episode are those of the individual speakers and do not necessarily represent or reflect the official policy or position of this show its producers or any related entities or advertisers. While our discussions may touch on various topics of interest, please note that the content is intended to inspire thought provoking dialogue and should not be used for a substitute for professional advice.Specifically, nothing heard on this podcast should be construed as financial, legal, medical or any other kind of professional advice. We encourage our listeners to consult with a professional in these areas for guidance tailored to their specific circumstances.