Take It From Me with Sara Chambers

Join Kosta and his guest: Sara Chambers, Fertility Advocate, Influencer and Co-Founder of Privy Clear, an innovative advertising agency dedicated to helping small businesses break through the noise and thrive in the digital world.

Approximately one in eight couples are affected by infertility in the United States.

As Sara documents her own journey with infertility she's haunted by the realization that restrictive laws on reproductive rights in Tennessee could abolish her family's only chance to conceive naturally.

This episode is a candid look at the choices lawmakers are making that impact the safety of all women in the state of Tennessee, and are shaping the future for families in our state.  For the first time in 20 years Tennessee’s infant mortality rate is rising and our health as a state is declining.

Find out more about Sara Chambers and Privy Clear:
https://www.privyclear.com/

Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a product of Morgan Franklin Media and recorded in Cookeville, TN.

This episode of Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is made possible by our partners at Cookeville Regional Medical Center and Volunteer State Community College.

Find out more about Cookeville Regional Medical Center:
https://www.crmchealth.org/

Find out more about Volunteer State Community College:
https://www.volstate.edu/campuses/cookeville

Transcript

Kosta Yepifantsev: 0:01

In 2023, the average college graduate will have $40,000 in student loan debt that will take 20 years to pay off your education that should be the stepping stone to the rest of your life, not the financial burden holding you back. That's why our partners at Ball State Community College have created multiple degree paths for students to seamlessly transfer to universities across the state. With tuition free options like Tennessee Promise and Tennessee reconnect. Students can focus on their academic goals without worrying about who's picking up the check for more information on financial aid programs and how to apply visit ball state.edu.

Sara Chambers: 0:39

We're scared of what we don't understand. And there's so much that people don't understand about pregnancy about infertility about just reproductive health. That goes for everyone. I think we all have things to learn about it because it's so complicated and what I said in the beginning that no pregnancy is the same. And it's the same with infertility like no diagnosis is the same.

Morgan Franklin: 1:04

Welcome to Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev, a podcast on parenting business and living life intentionally. We're here every week to bring you thoughtful conversation, making your own path to success, challenging the status quo, and finding all the ways we're better together. Here's your host, Kosta Yepifantsev.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 1:23

Hey y'all, it's Kosta today I'm here with my guest, Sara Chambers, fertility advocate, influencer and co founder of Privy Clear, Sara, straight to the point, I want to talk about what it's like to be an entrepreneur, starting their first small business in a small town, where you personally have some differing views from the majority. You started a tick tock outlining your fertility journey about three years ago. And along that journey. You've shared information on fertility, reproductive rights, and what it's like now living in a state where abortions are completely banned. How is your work as an advocate shaped your journey as a business owner?

Sara Chambers: 2:05

So I definitely do have some pretty different views from probably I would say, the majority of people in the area. And that used to be really scary, especially as a business owner. So when Tennessee passed the total abortion ban, I reached out to my state representative to I just had questions. The law was vague. I could read it in like 30 seconds. So I had questions. And it was pretty obvious that it could bleed into IVF. It could absolutely restrict that. And that's something that I've been saving for for like years now. Because it's like $30,000. Wow. So I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I've been saving for this. And then what if it goes away? Like, what do I do? So I reached out to him with just genuine questions about, you know, is this going to affect IVF? Like, are there things I need to worry about? Like, just let me know, because I read the law, and it just seems very vague. He responded, and it was the most insensitive response I've received. And I felt very guilty and shameful that I even asked the question, and then I just thought, I'm just trying to be a parent. Like, I'm just out here just trying to be a mom, you know, and then I felt anger. So, which is, you know, never good. So I was impulsive. And I made a tic toc with the email response that he had sent me. And it kind of blew up and I just spoke about, you know, my journey with infertility and how this law just kind of freaked me out and freaked people out in the infertility community. We were scared. That Tik Tok video ended up being picked up by Vanity Fair magazine, The Guardian, CNN, news outlets all over Tennessee, it was crazy. And at this point, like it was really obvious there was no going back and people knew who I am. And they know what I stand for. And this is a small town. So that was really, it was really scary. But it was also really rewarding and exciting, because for the first time I heard people talking about it, I heard people talking about infertility, reproductive rights, things that are really important to me and things that I think should be talked about. So people were learning about IVF and reproductive healthcare. And it's really complicated. Like, it's pretty obvious that no pregnancy and no infertility diagnosis is the same. I mean, I say it's obvious, but a lot of people don't really know that. And I didn't know that until I started my journey with infertility. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, there's so much that I didn't know and there's even still so much that I don't know about IVF. So my friend and my business partner, Hannah, she actually went through IVF to conceive her daughter, she's eight months old now. And so she was going through it as I was like, starting to enter the process and like going over everything, and there was so much that I didn't know even in my like IVF consultation. There's just so much to it, and it's so complicated. And I was just so upset when my state representative was like judging me for just asking if I be able to do IVF?

Kosta Yepifantsev: 5:02

Why does the law affect or have the potential to affect IVF?

Sara Chambers: 5:08

So when you do IVF, it's this crazy, complicated process where they actually pump you full of drugs to make you ovulate and produce molecules with eggs in them. And then they do this retrieval where they retrieve the eggs and create embryos. So then they go through various processes to see if those embryos are growing. And if they will grow, some of the embryos don't grow, and nothing happens. And so they're discarded. So that was what was in question, because the law was saying that pregnancy started at conception. So that's technically conception, but it's happening outside of the woman's body, and

Kosta Yepifantsev: 5:48

surely they're going to, like put an amendment in the law to exclude IVF. Yeah,

Sara Chambers: 5:54

so that's what I was hoping, you know, like, everyone should be talking about this, because this is really scary. So that's what made me reach out to my state representative. What did he say? So he said something along the lines of it's really confusing to me that someone that wants to be a parent is asking me about abortion rights. And I was like, What? No, yeah, like emails online. It's on Vanity Fair.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 6:19

Why? Okay, but you weren't asking about abortion rights. You were asking about IVF.

Sara Chambers: 6:23

Exactly. So he was, is he?

Kosta Yepifantsev: 6:25

But is he not a proponent of IVF.

Sara Chambers: 6:28

So he actually ended up calling me because the video blew up. And people were calling him my father in law was like, Oh, I'm calling him to talk to him. Yes. Yeah. Like, we were mad. And there's so much emotions that go into infertility anyway, like, I'm grieving. Okay. And then for someone that knows absolutely nothing about IVF, or, you know, probably the female reproductive system at all, is judging me like this. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, no, it's unacceptable. Yeah. So he actually called me and gave me this, like long winded story about someone that he knew that went through IVF. And it was just pretty clear that he didn't know really what he was talking about. And that's okay. Like, that's the whole reason I'm talking about it. Because this is something that should be talked about, you know, now that people are going to be making laws that could potentially affect it. And under his understanding, in the email, he said that the law could absolutely affect IVF. So I was like, spiraling, I'm thinking, okay, like, I'm not going to be able to do this,

Kosta Yepifantsev: 7:27

how long have you been saving for this procedure?

Sara Chambers: 7:31

I would say two years. Yeah, yeah. And I'll get more into my journey to it, there's been so much that we're gonna have to do if we want to start a family. So it was really scary. And I think that he saw it as the discarding of those embryos is considered abortion, even if they are growing, I don't think he knew all of the logistics about what goes into IVF. And a lot of people don't, and that's okay. But again, that's why I'm talking about it. So the phone conversation was just terrible. I thought there was going to be a little bit more empathy. And I didn't get that I definitely didn't get that from the email. And so it was kind of crazy to see it like picked up everywhere. But again, then, you know, like, everyone knew, where I stand on on reproductive rights. And that was, that was terrifying, a little bit I can't

Kosta Yepifantsev: 8:16

even imagine. And I especially in such a charged environment. I mean, when Dobbs was passed, and, you know, Roe v. Wade was struck down, I mean, this community, it was a very difficult conversation for anybody. We had Dr. Kursaal on, and it was very touch and go, because you just don't know how people are going to react. And I mean, I guess the question that I have is, are you saying that a majority of people in this community believe that IVF is abortion?

Sara Chambers: 8:45

Yeah. Yeah. Really? From Oh, yeah.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 8:47

They call mine just got blown. That's crazy. Yeah. What is the I mean, it's somebody can't have a child is their argument that they just shouldn't have children period. So

Sara Chambers: 9:00

the argument that I usually hear is, oh, just you need to go adopt. And if you want your own biological child, exactly. So a lot of people have liked to make me feel really bad for wanting my own child, right. And there's nothing wrong with that. And for a long time, I felt a lot of shame about that. Because I thought, Oh, maybe I do need to go out there and adopt. And so we actually looked into adoption. And it's not something that's unfamiliar to me. I have a cousin that's been adopted an aunt that was in foster care for over 15 years. So I was familiar with it to an extent, but we dove in deeper and found that one, adoption is incredibly expensive. It's way cheaper to do IVF. And it's also not a guarantee. And there's so many couples right now trying to adopt, there's like over 2 million, and there's not even like 500,000 children that are waiting to be adopted in foster care. I think there's like 100,000 So it's really it's like not easy to adopt. Yeah, so we've already gone through everything with infertility, and I don't want go through another, like, heartbreaking process of Oh yeah, we're going to adopt this child. And then the mom decides to, you know, keep and that's great. But I emotionally and my husband, we can't do that. Yeah,

Kosta Yepifantsev: 10:16

well, let's talk about your journey. Infertility can feel very isolating. It's not something we talk about often. And for better or worse, it's now getting swept into the conversation with reproductive rights and abortion policy. Would you tell us about your journey with fertility and what your family looks like today? Yeah,

Sara Chambers: 10:35

so our journey with infertility is it's crazy. So basically, we decided that we wanted to start trying to have a family pretty early on, like, right after we got married, because I've always had a feeling that our journey to parenthood was going to be difficult. I just kind of always had a feeling. So we start trying for several months, nothing happens. I contact my doctor. I'm like, Hey, like, I'm not getting pregnant. Like, I don't know, am I doing something wrong? Like, what am I what do we need to do? So I went through a series of testing, which people think like, oh, tests, no, it's like bloodwork at least once a week. ultrasounds, very invasive ultrasounds, it's a lot. And so that was happening for like, two months. And everything, all of my test results were perfect. So I'm like, why am I not getting pregnant? Then I went through four rounds of Clomid, which is a fertility drug, and it made me crazy. So I had like constant headaches, it was just a lot. And again, like not even talking about the emotional factor of everything. So just just really hard, emotionally and physically. And again, I'm also having all of these cycles monitored while I'm on the fertility drug, and I'm not getting pregnant. So there was one month that they told me I had two dominant molecules, which means there's a high probability of you conceiving twins, and I was so excited, I was like, Oh, my gosh, like, this is it, we're gonna get pregnant with twins. And like, I'm just gonna give birth once and be done, we'll have all the kids that I want. It's like, perfect, that didn't happen. So all of these months go by insurance covers like barely any of this. So like, we're paying 1000s of dollars out of pocket. And I'm still not getting pregnant. None of the tests are showing anything. So we're like, let's look at my husband. You know, I feel like that's the obvious thing to do, right. But there was always a reason for my doctor to not test my husband, which now looking back is so annoying, because male fertility is so easy to diagnose. It's like the easiest test. Yeah. And it's like inexpensive to did he eventually get tested. So I demanded that we got referred to a fertility specialist in Nashville. And she's the one when she had all of our records. She's like, he hasn't been tested, like no, I've gone through, basically went through health basketball

Kosta Yepifantsev: 12:39

of ones with him, why would your doctor in Cookeville not want to test him? I don't know, do like this still, my mind is just, it's going really fast in different directions. So your doctor, in Cookeville said that we do not need to test your husband when all of your tests are perfect. And you still can't get pregnant, the only through line that I can assume and I mean, I know that I'm sure probably people are gonna be like, ah, you know, hate. And I'm assuming that he thinks that it couldn't possibly be his fault, because he's a man.

Sara Chambers: 13:14

That's what? Yeah, I think that there is a bias that it's usually the females that have infertility. And that's the furthest thing from the truth. It's actually usually 5050. Like men are just as likely to be diagnosed with infertility. Yeah, into Nashville. Yeah. So we go to Nashville. And the first thing our doctor did was she was absolutely amazing. She tested him easy tests, like super inexpensive, and she calls me and she said, I know why you're not getting pregnant. And I literally like something out of a movie just dropped to the floor. I knew. She told me that he had a very low sperm count. And we had less than a 1% chance of ever conceiving naturally. How long ago was this? This was like two years ago, I guess. So I can't even explain like the all of the feelings that I was feeling in that moment. Because at the time, my husband didn't know that, like, this was the diagnosis too. So I'm like, How do I tell him he's at work? So that's when she told me you're probably going to have to do IVF I'm gonna refer you to a reproductive neurologist. So we can get an official diagnosis for my husband. So he goes for his appointment and is diagnosed with a first visit that he has a great three Verica seal, which varicose seals are very common in men. So a grade three is the most severe Great America seals. So that basically means he has a ruptured vein, cutting off blood supply. And every I thought this was really interesting, because there was a lot of feelings and emotions on his side as well, obviously. And he felt really guilty for a long time to like, Is there something I could have done to prevent this? And so his urologist said something that just gave us so much relief that all men's anatomy is designed to basically fail to cause a Verica seal like that's how common it is. Oh, wow. Big cuz of the way that the blood collects and the way that it flows and, like overheats, it's common for veins to rupture. So repairable. Yeah, so there is a corrective surgery. Unfortunately, he has such a severe grade, where the vein is completely ruptured, they have to remove the vein. And even if we have the corrective surgery, we'll probably still have to do IVF because basically, the damage is already done. Yeah. So for a lot of people, they can have the surgery count is restored, and they can get pregnant naturally. Or even do something like IUI, which is much less expensive than IVF and less invasive. For us. It's so up in the air like that could happen, but probably not. So we kind of then were faced with will do we pay for the surgery, which also was coded as like a fertility treatment, even though which is even crazier, because my husband had had symptoms of America seal for like years since he was like a teenager like in high school. And he had had ultrasounds because he had pain. And it was never diagnosed, it was misdiagnosed every single time. So he could have had corrective surgery years ago, and the damage could have been reversed. And we wouldn't be in this position. But it's something so not talked about that there's even bias held among, you know, medical professionals, which is crazy. So that's kind of what really kick started us talking about our journey. And that's why people are so shocked that my husband is also really open about everything. But you know, women don't talk about infertility, men really don't talk about infertility. Yeah, again, that shame factor.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 16:37

One of the most intimidating parts of going back to college as a non traditional student was trying to figure out which degree I was going to get, and more importantly, how I could actually use it. at Ball State Community College. They've taken the guesswork out of which degrees will actually help students prepare and land jobs in our community with five specialized AAS programs, including computer information technology Mechatronics nursing business Ball State has designed their courses around the jobs hiring the upper Cumberland, whether you're looking for your next career, or you just want to level up in your current field. Allstate has customized options for full time workers, parents, and students of all ages. For more information on financial aid classes, and how to enroll, visit ball state.edu. I'm just I'm learning so much. And I'm also gaining a perspective that I guess I just didn't realize existed to the degree that you're describing. And I know Jessica would mind me sharing but the first time that that Jessica had gotten pregnant back in 2012, we had a miscarriage, she's actually had two miscarriages, and it was devastating. But I never felt any shame to share that story. I mean, if anything, I was making sure that people understood you know, what she was going through and offer any type of support. I just I want to ask, and if you don't feel comfortable sharing, you know, it's kind of a vulnerable question. But I know that you want your biological child. So, so bad, almost to the point. And I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it's kind of like it has to happen for you to start the next stage of your life. Yeah, you know, and you're kind of stuck without it happening is that tough emotion to deal with every single day? It's

Sara Chambers: 18:28

been really tough. I'm at a really weird point in my life. And so as my husband, the grieving process has been really weird. So they say there's like, what, like five or seven stages of grief. I completely agree with that. Because we went through like anger, denial, you know, all of it. And my husband was more behind in the grief process than me it took him a little bit longer to process everything. And then we kind of realized, wow, we like really may not have kids like this really may not happen. And so we started feeling that like, what do we do now? And we were talking about this the other day, how we've never envisioned a future without children, like our future has always involved having a family. And it's something that I've even thought about since I was a little girl, like, I'm gonna grow up and have a family like that's what you do. So now this future that I've been thinking about forever is just, you know, it may not happen. And part of that is really terrifying. But I have, I don't know, I'm really good at compartmentalizing. So like, maybe that's it. But I've almost felt like tranquillity in this like season of my life. Because we've just kind of learned to deal with it, which I think just takes a really long time because people will ask me all the time, like, how are you so comfortable talking about infertility and like, how do you continue to live? And for a long time we weren't and just kind of one day, well, not one day, it was more of like a gradual thing. We just were able to live again. And so Now we're kind of in this phase where like, we're creating this new future. And it's kind of exciting because there are no expectations like, I've started this business. And you know, my husband's really excelled in his career. And so we're just kind of focusing on other things. And also our marriage, like our marriage has never been better, which is really weird, because you would think, like infertility, like this would be really hard. And it was, but now it's like, we're just able to just focus on us and like our life outside of having children. And it's been really transformative. But it's been really exciting. Yeah.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 20:32

Whether someone agrees with the legality of abortion or not, it doesn't change the danger, we're putting all women in being pregnant in Tennessee can have deadly complications. And as of November 2023, there are no exceptions for fetal anomalies, or for victims of rape or incest. For the first time, in 20 years, Tennessee's infant mortality rate is rising and our health as a state is declining. How do we take the politics out of these issues and see it from the viewpoint of a woman that wants to have a family? One

Sara Chambers: 21:08

of my favorite quotes is Ignorance breeds fear. And I wholeheartedly believe that we're scared of what we don't understand. And there's so much that people don't understand about pregnancy, about infertility, about just reproductive health. That goes for everyone. I think we all have things to learn about it, because it's so complicated. And what I said in the beginning that No, pregnancy is the same. And it's the same with infertility, like no diagnosis is the same. So when I heard about, like the law and the total abortion ban, it's like, there's no way these legislators have it figured out to the point where they can impose this total abortion ban, but like, I don't have it figured out and I'm learning everything about reproductive health, there's just no way. So I think for me, and what I think is just really important is to have these tough conversations, and to have empathy. And so I think that by having these conversations, and with talking to people that believe differently than you, I think that's how we take the politics out of it and go back to just listening and caring about each other. It's okay, if we don't agree, but like, let's talk about why we don't agree. Like, let's have a conversation, and let's listen to each other and go from there. And I think that's how change happens.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 22:24

I don't think that we should rule out compromise. No, you know, people are scared of that, I think absolutely. And I will say that this is an extremely complex issue. Like this isn't a representative democracy issue. In my opinion, this is not like an income tax, or, you know, paying more for property tax. This is not a decision that is easy, because it literally affects the lives. It's a life and death decision for women. And that's why when I look at this on a national stage, and I see what happens in Ohio, and in Kansas, and where they put this vote to the citizens of those states, a direct democracy, I think that that is what every state all 50 states should do that are the remaining states who haven't voted. Because it's so complex. I mean, you're describing the perception of doctors, you know, and your experience with doctors and their bias. This is a issue that has to be left to the citizens of the state to decide. And, look, there may be states that say, we don't want abortion. And we don't want any exceptions, and we want it to be at conception, there may be states, but they still have to decide and the fact that we're not letting them decide, and we're leaving it up to people who I mean, believe IVF is against the law. And it's the only way that somebody who can't have a child naturally can have a biological child. I mean, that's in my opinion, that's just wrong.

Sara Chambers: 24:08

I agree. And that's where, you know, the Ignorance breeds fear. People think that it's murder, these embryos that aren't growing, and there's different like grades of the embryos where they like rate them. So one is like, it's probably going to turn into a pregnancy. There's something called a mosaic embryo where some of the cells are normal. Some of them are abnormal, and they're at a higher risk of miscarriage and abnormalities. So usually, people aren't going to spend $30,000 to do IVF and everything and then transfer a mosaic embryo that's probably not going to happen. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't want to do that. Because I want to be a mom, you know, so some people choose to freeze all of those embryos and some people choose to discard them. We're talking about like three day old embryos. They're literally have less than 100 cells.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 24:58

Honestly, just there's so many different aspects to this law, just the idea that if a baby dies during pregnancy, that a mother can't have that baby removed, which are no longer viable, they have to literally give birth. Can you imagine the trauma of giving birth to a stillborn child? I would distraught I mean, distraught, doesn't even give it justice, it would be one of the worst, if not the worst experience in somebody's life.

Sara Chambers: 25:29

What's wild is I used to be on the completely opposite end of like reproductive rights, I was, like more pro life. And infertility wasn't the only thing that kind of made me see a different perspective. But it definitely was a huge piece. Because I started like learning so much about my own body to that I didn't know, people think about abortion, as you know, someone being irresponsible, or whatever, whatever idea they have in their head, and there's so much more, there's so much more. I don't think people realize that. That's where I think having these tough conversations is important.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 26:06

It's easy to get bullied on the internet, and you faced your fair share of criticism online. What do you think give someone the courage to get online and tell you God doesn't want you to have a baby? How do you deal with these kinds of comments?

Sara Chambers: 26:22

If there's anything I've learned about the internet, it's that people are really mean. And so in the beginning, these comments really, they really bothered me, I actually had someone that I used to go to church with, she commented on one of my videos and said that it was my fault that Dylan and I couldn't get pregnant, because, like God's punishing me, for whatever reason for standing for, you know, reproductive rights, or not being religious, and like all these things, and I just thought, I actually can't imagine ever one thinking that, and then also saying it out loud, like I'm grieving. This is hard. You know, it's so hard for me to relate to people that are making these mean comments online. And it really, really used to bother me. But I think now, I see it as an opportunity to educate and to teach people. And I've also learned so much from engaging in conversations with people, one of the most common comments I get is just adopt, like, you're just like crying online, like just go buy a child, you know, it's not that easy, first of all, and so I'll message them or I'll comment back, or whatever, and say, let's, let's talk about this, like, let's have a conversation. And probably every conversation that I've had of someone telling me that has ended in them saying, Oh, I had no idea, like, thank you so much for telling me I didn't know. And that goes a long way it does. So now I'm kind of like, please comment that on my video, and like, let's talk about it, because there's so much to be said, people get really, really mad when I talk about it online, I have like a whole playlist, like, let's talk about adoption, because adoption is trauma. From the very, very beginning, there are studies, there's so much data out there on the trauma of adoption. And like I said, I have a cousin that was adopted out of foster care. So I don't think people realize that, even if you adopted that child from the hospital at the moment of birth, there's still trauma, you have to parent, it's a different level of parenting. And it's just different. It's it requires a lot more. And I don't think and this is like a controversial stance of mine. But we really, really looked into adoption to see if it's something that we wanted to do. And I don't think that people who are infertile and haven't grieved with that should adopt, because that is so much pressure around a child, right? Like I couldn't have my own kids. So I'm just going to, like, adopt to you, you know, like, that could really mess with a child and their studies to prove that. That

Kosta Yepifantsev: 28:50

being said, if there's an alternative, like IVF I do not understand why. If you're going to use all the tools in the tool belt, to make sure that children have a successful life and upbringing, a happy life where they can grow up and be productive citizens of society. Why would you not want to use all the tools that are available to you?

Sara Chambers: 29:17

Yeah, why would you not want to exhaust all medical options before you know moving to anything else more drastic, and we're talking about lives. We're talking about children's lives here. I think it would be irresponsible for you to say I don't think that's my journey, but do it anyway. I think that that would be more you're responsible. So yeah, yeah. So if you don't think that adoption is right for you, then don't do it. That's okay. I mean, it's, again, it's like pregnancy. It's different for everyone. As

Kosta Yepifantsev: 29:47

you continue on your fertility journey, and you look for ways to find joy and purpose in the present. What's your advice to other women who are struggling with their fertility? What would you Tell yourself if you had the opportunity. So

Sara Chambers: 30:03

the first thing would be test your husband demand that they test him, because that would have saved us just so much time and money and just emotional stress. How

Kosta Yepifantsev: 30:14

common is that?

Sara Chambers: 30:15

You know, part of me thinks that maybe our case is like a unicorn case, because I haven't met many other women that said that their husband wasn't tested. Okay. So I don't know how common that is. I do know, after talking to my fertility specialists, that OBGYN do not have the fertility training to the extent that fertility specialists have. So there are things that they probably don't know, well, like fertility specialists. So I'm sure that that could play a part in it. I really don't know why what happened happened to us. I mean, it's just kind of crazy. I mean, there have been some people that have related to that. But for the most part, everyone has said, that was the first thing my doctor did was test both me and my husband, like, that's just kind of like common sense. So that would be the first thing that I would tell myself. The second would definitely be that it's not my fault. And so what's weird about our infertility journey is I feel like I experienced a lot of the grief and a lot of the motions because for like a year, I thought it was me, you know, now that I'm watching my husband kind of go through what I went through, and him feeling the same emotions that I felt that is there something I could have done to prevent this, like, Is this my fault? Is there a higher power, you know, punishing me? Did I do something wrong to deserve this. And I've talked to so many women and men now that we've opened up more about the male factor infertility, that have said they thought that that they thought that it was their fault. And it's not infertility as a disease, it is an actual disease, your reproductive organs are not working in the way that they should. And that's a disease. And so I think it's important to reiterate that and know that this is not your fault. It sucks it's life. One of the best things that Dylan and I have done to move forward and to be able to like continue to live again, is to always have something to look forward to. So we try to always have like a vacation booked or like a concert or something, just something to constantly look forward to. And that has just been a game changer. Something so small. Let's

Kosta Yepifantsev: 32:15

talk about your small business. Oh, yeah. Going back to the start of the show, I want to congratulate you on the launch and the success of your advertising agency pretty clear. You've been open less than six months, and you already have a waitlist, will you tell us about your services and how small businesses in the upper Cumberland specifically can utilize your service. So

Sara Chambers: 32:41

it kind of feels like a fever dream, because we had so Hannah, my business partner, and also my best friend, we work so well together. And we've worked in the marketing and advertising world for a while now, years. And we found out pretty quickly that we're just like a match made in heaven, our brains just work so well together. So we've been wanting to do this, and we didn't really know how it would go. And it's gone really well. So we do paid advertising. And our thing is that we focus on creative development. So in our previous careers, we've worked a lot with small businesses, and a lot of them have told us that they felt like their advertising was not authentic to who they are and to their brand. And so we wanted to fill that void, and create an advertising company that really focuses on our clients and making sure that the advertisements reflect who they are, and making them feel authentic. So we actually meet with our clients, and we learn about their industry. We're learning all about how ironic injections like knee injections or something. So it's been really fun for us to like, learn about all of these different businesses and what they're doing. And it's also been really fun to help them grow and increase ROI and just all of these fun things. So it's it's been really, really fun.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 34:02

And I will say when it comes to small businesses now you have some people like Amma, you know, she's like, just beyond talented when it comes to social media. And there are other business owners like that. But the majority like me, first off, you know, Morgan manages my social media, but I couldn't even begin to tell you how to create an ad. I mean, I might have to use like Microsoft Paint or something to create it. Like that's how inexperienced I am. And so, you're absolutely right, though, about authenticity on the internet, because when it's a I'll tell you just a really quick story. So I used to shop with Brooks a lot like the running shoes, okay, and I bought like shorts and all kinds of running apparel from them. And then I ran across a company called track Smith and their ads, they just speak to the running culture so much more. And Brooks is like a kind of the more commercialized running culture you know, and So now I only want to track Smith. They're more expensive, you know, probably two or three times more expensive, but because I connect better with them, I buy their stuff. That's everything exactly right. And so like, can you give me an example of maybe someone, you don't have to necessarily name them if you don't want to, but how you've been able to help create an ad that's helped a business connect better with their clients? Yeah,

Sara Chambers: 35:26

so we're working with a medical practice right now. And so they're the ones that offer the hyaluronic acid injections. And so that's pretty much what we're primarily focusing on advertising for them. And instead of asking people, because this is a treatment that has changed a lot of people's lives, and we've met with some of their clients, and listen to their testimonials, and also ransom as ads, so it's something that's very, very helpful that people don't know about. So instead of telling people Oh, yeah, like, check out these hyaluronic acid, knee injections, or whatever, we're saying, hey, when's the last time you walked around your neighborhood without being in pain? Like when's the last time you were able to just get up and not feel pain? Yeah, and really invoking that emotion. You know, a lot of advertising that we've seen is just generic graphics and things and nothing that's really that business. So we went and did some videos of the provider that is offering these that does the injections. And so I think that really helps people connect like, Oh, this is who's doing it. She's the sweetest person ever. And she knows what she's doing. So that helps like build trust and and the authenticity. So I think things like that are just really important.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 36:40

So we unpacked a lot. On this episode, we went from fertility rights to small business. And I want to wrap up this episode with a question about vulnerability. This is a question that I asked myself often, as business owners and members of our community, how do we show up authentically and truthfully online? And how do we have the vulnerability to say what we really think?

Sara Chambers: 37:09

I think one of the advantages to being online is the exposure honestly, and it can be a double edged sword, and it can be malicious at times. But I am a naturally shy person. And being online and showing parts of my life I wouldn't normally has just really emboldened me. And the authenticity the online community provides, bleeds into our physical communities. And it's really fun to see like people around town who have seen my videos and relate to something that I've said. And it's also really shocking how many individuals identify with my infertility videos, like people just in the community have, say, oh, my gosh, I've seen your infertility videos. And like, I'm also going through it. And so I've met so many incredible people, and like, literally built this little community, but actually big, like, infertility community. And it's just kind of helped us like not feel so alone. So in my workplace alone, to I know, three women who have had to undergo fertility treatments that I've had to go through IVF. And so them randomly seeing like my videos on Tiktok, or whatever has opened up that conversation in the workplace to talk to each other about our experiences. I think there's power in being vulnerable. And something as specific as infertility. It's so easy to feel alone. But I think there's power in talking about it, because you're not alone. There's other people that are there for you. So I think there's power in it.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 38:39

And I mean, obviously, it hasn't negatively affected your business. Yeah, it hasn't. So how much different is your life now than it was? Four years ago?

Sara Chambers: 38:51

So different? Yeah, I am a completely different person. That could be a whole other podcast. I'm very different from who I was. And I think, I think infertility and just our entire journey, just really, I don't want to say forced me to grow up because I was grown up, but it really forced me to have to just be stronger. Yeah. Open your mind. Yeah, open my mind. And I always tell people, when having like tough conversations, always be willing to be wrong. Always be open to it. That's how you learn. That's how you grow. And that's what I tried to do is to just always be open to being wrong and having that open mind.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 39:34

Well, I think we both agree that most people I'm sure that are listening to this episode agree that IVF is not abortion. So whoever came up with that conduit, they need to probably reevaluate their perspective on a lot of things. We always like to end the show on a high note, who is someone that makes you better Are when you're together.

Sara Chambers: 40:01

So I want to cheat because I have two people. So I'm going to cheat. So my husband is like, definitely, he's number one, we're best friends. And we're really good at challenging each other. So I just look forward to going home to him every day. And I just love him so much. And so like, he's definitely number one. But I have to also mention Hannah. So she's my business partner. So like I said, she has an eight month old daughter that she can see from IVF. And I watched her go through that. And that's honestly like how we bonded. So we always joke that we have this like trauma bond from infertility. But we both also challenge each other, and we work really well. And not only that, but she just inspires me so much. She is so smart. I've loved watching her passion with our business and just her creativity just like flow and it's just been an honor to be in business with her. And I'm just really excited for us to do really big things. So

Kosta Yepifantsev: 41:00

Do you know what's incredible about Cookeville Regional Medical Center? It's ours. No corporate strings attached. Imagine a hospital that takes every dollar it earns and asks, how can we give back to our community that CRMC Every year, millions are reinvested back into the hospital, ensuring the best care for Cookeville and the upper Cumberland with nearly 50,000 emergency visits last year. Cookeville Regional Medical Center isn't just serving our community. It's a vital part of it. Thank you to our partners at CRMC for representing the heart of our show, and the health of our community.

Morgan Franklin: 41:45

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev. If you've enjoyed listening and you want to hear more, make sure you subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your podcasts. Leave us a review or better yet, share this episode with a friend. Today's episode was written and produced by Morgan Franklin post production mixing and editing by Mike Franklin. Want to know more about Kosta visit us at kostayepifantsev.com. We're better together. We'd like to remind our listeners that the views and opinions expressed during this episode are those of the individual speakers and do not necessarily represent or reflect the official policy or position of this show its producers or any related entities or advertisers. While our discussions may touch on various topics of interest, please note that the content is intended to inspire thought provoking dialogue and should not be used for a substitute for professional advice.Specifically, nothing heard on this podcast should be construed as financial, legal, medical or any other kind of professional advice. We encourage our listeners to consult with a professional in these areas for guidance tailored to their specific circumstances.